staying in/leaving the EU

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by rat, Mar 4, 2016.

?

well?

  1. leave

    9 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. stay

    17 vote(s)
    63.0%
  3. don't know

    1 vote(s)
    3.7%
  1. rat

    rat god of all

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    what do you all think is the best option?
     
  2. Weirdo

    Weirdo UKA Editor in Chief
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    No brainer for those in the construction industry. Its in.
     
  3. latro

    latro Anime Editor
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    That should be a brainer for anyone.....
     
  4. Tweek

    Tweek Registered

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    Leave; the idea of a trading block is a good idea but it is far too political and deliberately wastes money. As an example the way the Euro-parliament goes to Strasburg every so often just to appease the French is obscene. That said being in isn't as bad as the staunchest leavers suggest and I'm sure leaving wouldn't be as bad as the outer want us to believe.

    The most important thing though is that we are having a say; I just hope when the results are in they are decisive so that we can just get on with things rather than talking about the EU all the time.
     
  5. -Danielle-

    -Danielle- Whore dollas all over the place...

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    Even if an out vote wins, we'll be staying in. It will be fixed. Like the p*ss poor number of seats farage got compared to the snp despite the number of votes. I don't trust this vote at all. Shame.
     
  6. rat

    rat god of all

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    Yeah we need a proportional representation system instead of the way the constituencys are handled now, even though i'm glad ukip didn't get many seats it's unfair when your votes dont count.
     
  7. -Danielle-

    -Danielle- Whore dollas all over the place...

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    Yeah exactly. I may not agree with him on everything but the votes should of counted for more than they did. His party got an outstanding amount of votes and one whole seat to show for it.

    Sucks knowing regardless of the way I vote in June, the decision has already been made for us all. Total rigging.
     
  8. Chrono

    Chrono Legendary Devil Knight

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    In. If only for European working rights. Although nobody seems to be sure what would happen if we came out anyway. How can we vote on something we aren't entirely sure on? Most people seem to want to come out, purely based on the immigration issue. Apparently, if we came out and wanted to trade with the EU, they could just force unlimited migration on us anyway.
     
  9. latro

    latro Anime Editor
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    To be honest this is one of the few votes where I wish it was fixed so we'd stay in.....

    I also really wish this could be over sooner so we don't spend half ukastock talking about politics like last year:rolleyes:
     
  10. Hanners

    Hanners Strawberry Sae forever

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    Yep, given how this Conservative government have been repeatedly gnashing their teeth at the inability to strip away EU regulations limiting working hours and allowing for paid sick leave and holidays, it would an absolute disaster for anyone in employment to vote to leave the EU. Unless you want to work every hour of the day with no benefits in return, of course.
     
  11. rjessop

    rjessop Registered

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    We were given the opportunity to change the voting system for MPs in 2011 to the alternative vote (a "miserable little compromise" according to Nick Clegg, then leader of the Liberal Democrats and a proponent of proportional representation) which was rejected more than 2 to 1 and strangled any hope of adding any proportional representation anytime soon. So if you want to blame someone for the poor showing of seats for UKIP in the general election despite their popular support you should be looking at the Great British electorate.
     
  12. rjessop

    rjessop Registered

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    Actually on that note, I reckon just as an observation that if I find my self on one side of the fence and the people on the other side include Nigel Farage, George Galloway, Iain Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling, Marine le Pen and Vladimir Putin, my intuition is that I'm probably on the right side.

    I'm only half joking.
     
  13. -Danielle-

    -Danielle- Whore dollas all over the place...

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    Yeah I remember hearing something about the voting system vote. It was to do with that first past the post wasn't it? People only care when it's too late I guess. That or they kept it quiet as I definitely didn't hear about any vote to change first past the post.

    Not sure what that second post means but my saying farage got unfairly shafted doesn't mean I'm a supporter.

    I agree with Chrono that the out of EU supporters seem to be solely after that over the immigration "issue" without much thought to anything else. I haven't seen any argument for it outside of that really and well stories circling it too like how some foreign r*pist gets to stay here because of our laws and stuff. That stuff is most definitely bullsh*t and shows how sh*t this country can be and will easily anger people like it did myself. Same with that guy previously convicted of murder who murdered that young girl where some footage showed him cycle down her path not long after she went missing. He was from another european country so just got to walk into ours.

    If politics happens at uka stock, you'll find me in the wendy house lol. This will be my vacation, not my house of commons mwahaha :p :)
     
  14. Necro

    Necro Grim User

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    I'm for leaving frankly due to wanting change. The system is shit, everything is shit, so **** it, it can't get that much more shit. That said we wont leave, because the tories don't want to and they'll make it not happen.

    I also voted yes to the change in the vote so I can't be blamed :3
     
  15. -Danielle-

    -Danielle- Whore dollas all over the place...

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    Least you agree with me we wont leave because the people in power don't want to :p

    Thank you for trying to change how we vote dear, i'm gutted I missed it lol.

    I'm still on the fence. Immigration and the benefits they get is a huge issue. They shouldn't get child benefits for children who don't even live here plus, refugee crisis, they're meant to stay where they step foot. Why the want for britain when france etc is perfectly safe? Oh cause we're a soft hand here and will throw free money at you.

    In terms if jobs and that I lean to staying in. I dont know what to doooooo!!
     
  16. duoinchains

    duoinchains t'other resident yaoi fan

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    Turning that on it's head, what about the c2million ex-pat Brits who have retired/moved to Spain, France, etc.? Who pays their pensions/benefits? Will they be affected if we leave?

    Not to mention that a considerable number of Brits work in the EU, how will they be affected.

    Free trade and freedom to move/work works both ways, don't forget.

    The UK already opts out of the Schengen Agreement (which opened up most internal borders within Europe back in 1995, effectively making mainland Europe one country in terms of passports/visa requirements). So UK border controls would simply remain as today... clearly that has little deterrence value to hold the immigrant hoardes at bay, so I don't see that leaving the EU would make any difference/improvement. We have obligation to at least keep those wanting to come here alive until their case is heard/decided, or do we really want the situation where refugees drown within sight of the white cliffs of Dover or starve upon arrival? The UK is certainly not a soft-touch or giving massive free hand-outs to refugees or illegal immigrants - barely enough to stay fed, clothed and housed (often in pretty dire accommodation) and they do not have the right to work. France, Germany and other EU countries are the softer touch in many cases. We appear to be trying to simply shift the 'problem' further and further away, without addressing the cause.

    Personally, I'm firmly in the stay camp - to the point where I'd happily join the Euro to make trade and movement even easier.

    I don't agree with every EU policy, or some of the monetary waste the EU propogates, but we are part of Europe - you cannot deny simple geography.

    And finally, the xenophobic/racist/UKipper/fascist twunts always seem to bang on about their sacred 'Britishness' and how it must be kept 'pure'... So is that Celtic-Brit(400BC-100BC), Italian-Brit(100BC-300AD), Scandinavian-Brit (300AD-600AD), Germanic-Brit (600AD-1066AD) or French-Brit(1066AD - 1250AD) they are wanting to preserve?? /sarcasm (And yes, those are very rough dates with plenty of ignored overlaps)
     
    #16 duoinchains, Mar 7, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
  17. Weirdo

    Weirdo UKA Editor in Chief
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    Excellent reply.

    So to add to this. This week my step mum retired. They have bought a property in Brittany and are moving there in a few days time. Both of them are non-political but they embrace the thought of being both English and French as France is welcoming them with open arms. However, if Brexit happens, it could throw everything they come to rely on, away. One example is the European Health Insurance Card, which allows them free healthcare in a semi-private health system in France, will cost them dearly as both of them are over the age of 60 and its rather hard to get private health insurance. Similarly it will impact their pension and tax as they will be doubly taxed in France and the UK, whereas due to the EU, they are partially exempt being British Citizens.

    Both have been impacted by the issues in Calais, but this isn't a new thing. There has been a migrant camp in Calais since 1998. It just used to be in Sangatte, not by the motorway in Calais. Its always been an issue, and frankly moving the border to Calais with the Channel Tunnel and the Calais port expansion has worked wonders. Moving that back into the UK would exasperate the situation. Plus it would massively reduce security on the ferries.

    Lastly, at the moment we operate a Europe wide tendering system for all public and *most* private sector contracts for a very wide range of services. This is called the Open Journal of the European Union. OJEU. In this list, any non-member states are excluded. And frankly, most of my clients use it. If we left, it would stuff up so much and close off so many business opportunities that it might actually cripple my company. Scary thought.
     
  18. megalomaniac

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    The thing to remember before voting either way is to educate yourself on the facts. That's the actual facts not the "facts" spewed by the bile filled dung heaps we consider news sources in this country, like the Daily Mail. Alas, it would do some in my family well to remember that their only interest is in selling newspapers by whatever means they can get away with, not in reporting the truth. As such made up scandal always triumphs boring truths.

    The reason I suggest looking up the facts is that I can guarantee that most of what you think you know about the EU is wrong, that won't be true of everybody but it will be true of a depressingly large majority. Pick almost anything during this government, or the last few for that matter, that has been blamed on "Europe" and I'll bet the real problem's (if there is even a problem at all...) elsewhere or even much closer to home. Take the ban on prisoners voting which Chris Grayling et al. got in such a tizzy over. The court which ruled that illegal was the European Court of Human Rights, which upholds the European Convention on Human Rights. Despite having the word "Europe" in it that is completely separate to the EU, and we're still bound by that convention regardless of whether we're in the EU or not. Actually those get conflated a lot, if you hear a politician complaining about human rights laws getting in the way then they're probably talking about the ECHR. Incidentally, if you do hear a politician complaining about human rights never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever vote for that politician unless you fancy living in a country without these protections: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Convention_articles
     
  19. duoinchains

    duoinchains t'other resident yaoi fan

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    Well said!

    The media group which owns the Daily HEIL! has avoided paying the Chancellor far more in tax (to the tune of billions) than the immigrants they rant about have extracted by way of benefits.

    And the legal immigrants (mostly those from the EU) who work in the UK contribute over twice as much via income tax/NI as is paid out in benefits to those immigrants (legal or illegal) who can't/don't work.

    No one is saying the EU is perfect, just that the UK benefits more from membership than people realise and not just in pure monetary terms.


    Had an interesting convo over the weekend (only partly fuelled by alcohol):
    Say we do leave the EU. That could prompt the Scots (and arguably Welsh and N Ireland too) to force a devolution vote and then apply to join the EU as separate countries, leaving just England outside. If the Scots/Welsh/NI then sign-up to Schengen... passport control at the inner British borders, anyone?
     
  20. -Danielle-

    -Danielle- Whore dollas all over the place...

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    Yeah I wont be voting if I dont understand what i'm voting for. Sadly a lot of "no" voters will be doing just that though.

    I get we get benefits in other countries if we was to live in them but surely other countries wouldnt pay me for a kid that isnt in the same country as me???? Genuine question as i dont know. I just think thats a bullsh*t law tbh.

    Also i've seen nothing about how staying in the EU will help with regards to the rapist and murderer I mentioned. Nothing is being done with those laws. Why wasnt a criminal check done on the latter and deportation forced with the former? Its disgusting. A girl is dead and one will never be the same again. Sorry, you can tell me passion here lol.
     
    #20 -Danielle-, Mar 7, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016

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